Thursday, 19 March 2009

Remember Foxtrot One One

Braybrook Street 12th August 1966

I was full of compassion a few weeks back when questioning if Ronnie BIGGS should be released on parole a little bit early. He is rather a unique case of his own making.

There is another who is touted for release, not early but after serving 42 years. I'm talking about the infamous Harry ROBERTS who killed 2 police officers and was complicit in the murder of a third. He is 72 years old and reckons he should be released as he is no longer a danger to the public.

This is a man who shot 2 unarmed police officers in cold blood. This is a man who personally executed both as he was about to be apprehended red handed en route to commit an armed robbery. This is a man who escaped the hangman's noose by 8 months after the death penalty was abolished in 1965.

He is our police equivalent to Ian Brady, who the general public would never accept into their midst again. Roberts should have been left swinging on a rope until the birds picked his bones bare. Football hooligans still revere him, taunting us with his name. Letting him out would bring untold riches as he hits the celebrity criminal circuit.

He was returned to the mainstream prison population as he was involved in all sorts when released into an open jail. Not fit for release ever - Hope you live to be a hundred Harry and spend it all inside. There are cases where life means life, and even if he ends up dribbling like Ronnie Biggs then this one stays in. No compassion to be shown here, just like the compassion he showed DS Christopher Head, DC David Wombwell and PC Geoffrey Fox.

What say the court of public opinion?

The Eyes Have It


Dandelion said...

I am sure that the families of Brady's victims would find this comparison a sickening insult.

The deaths of those two (adult, and freely-serving) officers will have been quick and painless compared to those of Brady's many victims, and these officers were not killed for pleasure, but for evading arrest. Totally different.

I do not think this chap raped or tortured them for hours, or derived any sexual or sadistic satisfaction from killing them, or making them beg for their lives. The crimes are totally different, as is the danger posed to the public. Totally different.

Too often, police officers think they should get special treatment under the law, and it just isn't so. A policeman's life is not worth more than a child's life, thank you very much.

You pays your money, you takes your chances. Everybody knows that career criminals do not want to be apprehended. Everybody knows the police put themselves in the line of fire for the rest of us.

A proper police force would never have allowed for unarmed officers to approach three suspects en route to an armed robbery in the first place. Talkabout a stupid, arrogant thing to do. I can't believe anyone was actually surprised by the outcome.

And do you know what execution actually means? There really is no need for this lurid and inappropriate type of tabloid language. He shot two police officers, and that is terrible, but hardly cause for life without parole. "Execution"?? Give me a break.

As a lay person, the only police murder I know of that comes close to an analogy with the Moors Murders is (and I hesitate to say his name, out of respect) PC Keith Blakelock. And he died for the bigotry and corruption of his organisation.

Very interesting topic though. Look forward to reading others' comments.

Stressed Out Cop said...


I thought you would pop up! So you would let him out?

Execution comment - Walking upto the car having shot one officer and shooting three times when he could have got away. Come on!

AND is was a routine stop they didn't know it was en route to an armed robbery.

As regards Brady - I take it you think he should have been hung?

Both evil men and I think the families of Brady's victims would see the comparison as a true reflection of that.

Where you been anyway? anywhere nice?


Dandelion said...

Well, an execution is the killing of someone by judicial process, so it clearly doesn't apply to a criminal murderer, does it?

I gather it wasn't actually a routine stop, the people in the van were suspects. According to your scotland yard website link, anyway.

I do not think anybody should be hung. Even if I didn't abhor violence in all its forms (and hypocrisy too), the death penalty is problematic while the justice system is imperfect, and the police corrupt.

I also believe the concept of "evil" is a cop-out (pardon the pun) for people who'd rather not face up to the real causes of extreme crimes against the person, who'd prefer to get the fun out of punishing people than actually prevent the crimes in the first place.

But in any case, I still contend that while "evil" might apply to Brady, it is hardly applicable for shooting two policemen when taken by surprise and wishing to evade arrest. Let's keep a sense of perspective, shall we?

I don't think I've been anywhere really. How about you?

Anonymous said...

Dandelion get your facts straight! PC KEITH BLAKELOCK RIP was hacked to death by a mob of disaffected people who couldn't cope in THATCHERS eighties. They rioted and killed a policeman not because they had no other recourse but were unable to see the alternatives. The MET was not corrupt and bigoted.The rioters could not cope with the hard times because they were not equipped to do so and atttacked Blakelock and other PC'S in his serial whilst they protected the FIRE BRIGADE putting out fires they had started wher they lived(intelligent move). They should have let them burn. But it shows their true colours.

Harry Stanley's crime is at a comparative level to BRADY'S he executed the unarmed officers who were trying to prevent crime in an area. If it wasn't for officers like thoose in Foxtrot One, Blakelock and I who protect the public from the likes of the Broadwater Farm rioters and Harry Stanley where would left wing liberals like you be? To paraphrase VOLTAIRE and maybe misquote "I may not agree with your opinions but I defend your right to have them!" Even when I personally find them offensive and misinformed.

Officer Dibble said...

This recently convened court of public opinion says 'let him stew'

Dandelion said...

Actually, anon, it is you who needs to get your facts straight vis-a-vis Broadwater Farm. It is common knowledge and well-documented that the riot was caused by aggressive, racist policing.

Can you explain in what sense the Foxtrot murders were judicial killings? No? Then stop calling them executions, you numptie.

Dandelion said...

And ps, I don't care if you find my opinion misinformed, when it is ten times better informed that yours! Lol

Dandelion said...

And pps - look at how many people the police have killed, right, compare it to the number of police who have been killed, and then complain about these three. Seriously. Have you seen the stats? Stoke Newington, anyone???

Anonymous said...

Just found SOC’S blog….like it.


You say that police officers shouldn’t get special treatment under the law. Well like it or not we do. Assaulting a police officer is a specific offence. This is not because we are especially delicate or because law maker like us. It is because we represent the State and the State needs to maintain authority or there will be anarchy. Police standards of conduct are also expected to be higher than those of the general public.

You say that Brady’s actions cannot be compared to those of Roberts. I would agree. Brady and Hindley’s crimes will be remembered for centuries. There is no punishment ghastly enough to fit their crimes. That said, Roberts was a cold blooded murderer and deserves to hang.

You also say that labeling people as “evil” is a cop out to avoid dealing with underlying issues. I used to subscribe to that point of view but eleven years of response work has changed my mind….I’m afraid there are some people who are just plain vicious, nasty, unbelievably selfish and self centred. They will inflict terrible hurt and suffering on anyone they have to for the most trivial of reasons. These people ARE evil. I deal with them every day. That they are outside your frame of reference does not mean that they do not exit.

Dandelion said...

Well, anon, I can't argue with what makes perfect sense, can I?

Yes, police standards of conduct are expected to be higher, but there is in practice very little means of ensuring this. Given that powers are invested in the police without very much actual responsibility, and very few checks and balances against police abuse, we have a problem, which undermines the public's view of the police in general. Where there are good eggs, that is more down to luck than good judgement, and the bad eggs are largely free to abuse their powers with impunity.

I still contend that the life of a police officer is not worth any more than that of anyone else, and I do think that a cold-blooded murder (or two) in the line of criminal activity is not the same as a sadistic murder that is preceded by deliberate torture.

No-one "deserves" to hang, and if they did, who is so without sin, and so omniscient to be in a position to judge? Especially while police are known for tampering and withholding evidence, even if they were infallible. I wouldn't bet money against a miscarriage of justice in any given case. Perhaps you would?

And I see what you are saying about truly ghastly people, but if you want to stop the ghastliness of people, it's an uncomfortable fact of life that we have a moral responsibility to find explanations beyond the supernatural. People do evil things, yes, but there is good in everyone. Perhaps the police are not in the best position to see it, or to bring it out, or even to want to look for it. But that doesn't mean it's not true. :-)

Bullseye said...

Regardless of the discussion over comparing one murder to another, the fact is that all the perpetrators in these crimes should have swung.
As that is not an option, then life should mean life. That is waht the home secretary promised us at the time that the death penalty was repealed. I suppose the trouble now is that the home secretary is too busy fiddling her expenses.
Brady, Roberts, Sillcott are all evil and no amount of passage of time makes it right that they now walk the street again as free men.
Even Biggs should stay in jail until he dies. His actions killed a train driver and he only came here to leech off the NHS. Personally, I have let the filthy parasite die in Brazil.
Dandelion,(my old flower...sorry couldnt resist it), at best your views are naive and misconstrued. At worst they are stupid and without foundation. I hope it is the former.
(The West Yorshire Police View)

Dandelion said...

Hello Bullseye, my old darts-player. I feel the same about your views, as it goes. I couldn't have put it better myself.

If you are talking about Winston Silcott, I must say I am gobsmacked and flabberghasted, after what that poor bloke has been put through by flawed and racist policing, and I don't think you should be in the police force really.

In fact, neither should anyone who thinks its ok to wish ghastly deaths on other people. That type of attitude is really not conducive to good policing, and a sign of a personality disorder, if you ask me, or at the very least, a vicious and immature outlook. Don't you get it? Killing is WRONG. End of.

Damo Mackerel said...

Dandelion he executed those police officers in cold blood. Why are you so pendantic with a word? It seems you are the immature one here.

Amral said...

Dandelion: "I am sure that the families of Brady's victims would find this comparison a sickening insult."

I think you may be wrong. What makes you sure that's how the families would react?

Dandelion: "But in any case, I still contend that while "evil" might apply to Brady, it is hardly applicable for shooting two policemen when taken by surprise and wishing to evade arrest. Let's keep a sense of perspective, shall we?"

I think it's still evil - just a more basic, unspectacular evil (compared to Brady).

Anonymous said...

as a 13 year old kid who saw the shooting my life is still screwed up now but we are forgot about the worst bit i remember was the one on the floor kicking out then the car being on top of him .me and my brother thought it was a film till isaw the colour of the mans face onthe floor we ran home that day leaving our cricket gear on the scrubs to me it still seems like yesterday

Stressed Out Cop said...


Thank you for your contribution. This must have been awfulto see at that age, we often forget the impact crime has on onlookers.

I hope you find some peace - no counselling in those days of course.

Anonymous said...

That must have been Sgt. Head you saw as a 13 year old ...
Was he 'kicking out' at Harry Roberts?
I don't understand how he ended up under the wheels of the car.
How awful for you and your brother.